E85Forum.com

jeffrey10x2 · Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 15 Location: duncansville,pa

hello,
after seeing a couple of guys at our track totally rule the bracket racing running E85 this year. i made the choice to switch.
just got a Quick Fuel FX-4710-E85 1050 dominator.

i got it through summit so im guessing it comes with a generic set up on it.
the car specs are
3200 lbs total weight with me
461 BBC
.714 lift solid roller
dart pro 1 310 alum heads ported to 320 cc
timing is locked at 39*
glide, 5500 stall converter and 4.56 gears
best ET on C12 vp fuel was a 9.61 @139.78 mph

my questions are these,
do i need to retard the timing any?
the carb came with the following jetting.
94 mains
47 nozzles
42 idle bleeds
63 interm. bleeds
28 high speed bleeds
.150 needle and seat.

does this sound close?
(gas carb had 96 max jets in it and the 94 holleys that are in the new carb are the same as 111 max jets.)

im pretty excited for next season to get here to try this out.
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72 camaro
PAR race engines 461 cu in BBC

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Welcome aboard Jeffrey 10x2 !

I will let the carb guys answer your questions regarding the setup.

I would add that if you are not aware of it- E85's % ethanol changes from approx 83% pure ethanol in the summer to as low as 70% pure ethanol in the winter. Where you are they are likely in transition and that will change your air/fuel ratios. If you have not already bought some summer blend from back in August you may have to check % ethanol in what is in the pump now and get at least some purchased now if you can either still get some summer grade or at least some fall blend (E75-E80). Be sure to seal the container well so it will still be good next spring. PA may not have summer grade again until June.

This is a common problem for folks new to E85. If you do tune on the winter or fall/spring blend- you will be lean when summer grade is put into your fuel cell. You will be fine as long as you retune. Most will just store some to run in the fall and early spring until summer grade is available again.

If you are lucky- the station you buy from will know what is in their tank for % ethanol. Their load manifests SHOULD tell them if they retained a copy and did not forward all records to their home office. If they do not know then you will have to test. A simple test is easy with a graduated cylinder or even a $20 kit from QF. These test have to be done right and are not super accurate however.

jeffrey10x2 · Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 15 Location: duncansville,pa

thanks
i bought a tester when i ordered the carb.
i had one guy tell me that he adds some methanol to his if its under 85%. said it doesnt take much to bring it up to where you need it to be.
im in learning mode now. not running it till spring but trying to learn all i can between now and then
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72 camaro
PAR race engines 461 cu in BBC

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

89shortbox · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 153 Location: Michigan

I have yet to here of a quickfuel domi that has supplied enough fuel at WOT.

Correct me if im wrong but Methanol and gasoline wont mix or (bond) like ethanol and gasoline. What effects would this have? Slugs of just methanol?

Do eth and meth even play together?
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----------------------
89 S10
406 SBC Twin Turbo BT
Going E85 this coming season
HAHA, the season is alreay gone to another season.

jeffrey10x2 · Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 15 Location: duncansville,pa

im not sure if they mix, i was just told that by a guy in VA that runs a 540 camaro on E85.
he said the most he has had to mix in a 55 gal drum was 5 gals of methanol to bring it up to 85%
im just learning this stuff.

my fuel system is
aerospace 350 pump
aeromotive regulator
an10 from the pump to the reg.
2 an 6 lines from the reg. to carb.

i have 3 goals to the switch
first is savings on the cost of fuel
second is to tighten the window in ET change due to weather changed
and 3rd, to pick up a little ET
_________________
72 camaro
PAR race engines 461 cu in BBC

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

The last year of Indy's run on methanol was actually 90% methanol and 10% ethanol. I do not know if they used some type of cosolvent in the mix as was used when methanol was used in gasoline at low levels.

http://www.indycar.com/news/archive/show/55-izod-indycar-series/28531-indycar-series-teams-begin-use-of-ethanol-blended-fuel/

In the industrial alcohol and medical (not fuel grade) version of ethanol- methanol is the most common denaturant- more so than MEK.

With the two above examples- it would not indicate issues with mixing.

I am not a WIKI fan due to their authors bias and distortions against certain things such as ethanol- but here is their link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

ajcasini · Joined: 04 Mar 2009 Posts: 15

Hey Jeff how you doing. Glad you got the carb in house.

You do not need to retard the timing from gas at this point. I never changed timing when I did my conversion. I did change spark plugs to a set of NGK-7 which was one hotter then what I had on gas.

As far as the tune I think they missed it a bit. Give me a call and we can talk about it.

Just a couple things I spotted that I dont care for are the 28 HSB and the 63 intermediate. I would like to see those both a bit smaller. I have also heard some issue with the 150 n&S sealing up. I use 130's in all my stuff.

AJ

Eric68 · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 331

Hopefully jeffrey10x2 can help you get it going with his tune up. My experience is the same as 89shortbox -- too lean at WOT too rich at cruise.

If you cannot get it right as a 3 circuit (Hopefully you can!) and want some help feel free to give me a shout. My first move would be to convert it to a 2 circuit carb.
_________________
E85 racer and E85 carb builder
www.horsepowerinnovations.com

E85 powered 68 Camaro street car
Best ET on motor 9.96 @ 133 MPH, 5.92 on N2O in the 1/8th

jeffrey10x2 · Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 15 Location: duncansville,pa

thanks guys,
aj , can you pm me your number ?
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72 camaro
PAR race engines 461 cu in BBC

jmarkaudio · Joined: 22 Oct 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Florida

I think it is off as well, my gas 1050 Dominators use 92's to start without a power valve. I wouldn't run it with less than 100's to start. If you don't have one I would suggest getting a wideband O2 system, it will help get you in tune. For N&S's BLP has viton .140's available now and should be a better choice. Without pulling the mainwell plugs/idle tubes it's hard to say if the mainwells are big enough from QF, maybe Mark or Eric have measured them before. In a gas Dominator the factory blocks are marginal in some cases, when the air and fuel flow go up due to higher HP you can take the jets out and still not be rich enough due to the restriction the idle tubes impose. E85 demands more fuel, that is why Eric and Mark use reworked 2 circuit blocks when setting up an E85 carb, and why the 1150 I just did for E85 has them as well.
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Mark Whitener

jeffrey10x2 · Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Posts: 15 Location: duncansville,pa

i dont have a wideband but i do have an EGT meter on the car.
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72 camaro
PAR race engines 461 cu in BBC