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srt007
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Location: miami, fl
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 Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: new to e85 and need some help! |
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hi guys i need some help figuring out how many pumps i need for my appliction.
my setup is a 06 srt8 twin turbo 426 with ported heads and custom cam.
right now on 93oct im making 900whp at 13.5 psi with not too much of an agressive tune, so theres still a little more power to be made(maybe 40 to 50whp).
well im running twin walbro's right now for the 900whp on pump.
i just bought a fore triple pump fuel hat. how much power can 3 walbro's handle with e85? |
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srt007
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Location: miami, fl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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wow not alot of action in this forum!
if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated! |
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drmatera
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I would be more inclined to put one big pump on the car. But to answer your question - whatever a walbro pump is good for on gas figure 35-40% less for E85 to give yourself some headroom
BTW, twin turbo SRT8 sounds cool
_________________
1986 Porsche 911 Turbo - Corn Fed
E85 in South Florida
$2.49 per/gal |
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murphinator
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| srt007 wrote: | wow not alot of action in this forum!
if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated! |
not a lot of twin turbo , big cube ,efi guys on here but the 30-40% more capcity than on gas posted above is pretty well accepted.
_________________
PB's 1/4 mi 12.209, 117.75 trap ,1/8 mi 7.76 ,93.99 trap , 1.949 short time 4.53 0-60
I tune with HP Tuners software |
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srt007
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Location: miami, fl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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so im guessing 3 walbros is good for 1000whp give or take a ponies.
i was hoping for 1200whp but im gonna need 4 pumps for that.
i dont wanna ditch the oem fuel tank for a fuel cell so im gonna have to figure something out. i know i can use an external pump that can handle the power but this car is my daily driver and i dont like running external pumps for a daily street car |
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hotrod
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 872
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | not alot of action in this forum!
if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated! |
Yes we don't have a lot of chatter but we have some very bright folks here and I am sure we can help you find the info you need.
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You might want to look at this post to help answer your question.
http://e85forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=797&highlight=fuel+pump
The walbro GSS 342 fuel pumps are the same pump used in the dodge viper, and are good for about 500-600 hp on E85.
255 liter/hr = 255000 cubic centimeters of fuel an hour. E85 has a specific gravity of about 0.79 so at max flow the pump should deliver about 201450 grams of E85, at 454 grams per pound that is 453 pounds per hour of E85.
The rule of thumb for gasoline is it takes .5 lbs/hr to make 1 horsepower for one hour. On E85 that number is about .7 lbs/hr.
So at 453 pounds/hr of fuel a single Walbro 255, can pump divided by .7 = 633 hp (MAX) (for a single pump)
Dual pumps about 1200 hp max unless you feed them a bit more than 13.8 volts. In a high power application you want to make sure your fuel pump supply voltage is high and stable. Some folks use voltage stabilizers intended for high end sound systems to feed the pumps 15 -17 volts at max power.
Now all that assumes you have no fuel system restrictions and are providing rated supply voltage to the pump and that your pumps are delivering rated fuel flow.
The ONLY way to know is to run a test and time how long it takes for you pump to move a fixed amount of fuel through the installed fuel system.
Tap a line off your fuel rails and run a hose into a fuel can and measure how long it takes to put 10 pounds of E85 in the can.
I think double Walbro pumps are plenty of pump for your situation unless you have a restriction in your system some where or problems with voltage supply to the pumps. Triple pumps would provide a very nice safety factor.
Dave Buscher has done testing on double Walbro fuel pumps and depending on the output fuel pressure needed and supply voltage they can feed between 888 and 1500 hp.
Larry |
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srt007
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Location: miami, fl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| hotrod wrote: | | Quote: | not alot of action in this forum!
if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated! |
Yes we don't have a lot of chatter but we have some very bright folks here and I am sure we can help you find the info you need.
------------------------------
You might want to look at this post to help answer your question.
http://e85forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=797&highlight=fuel+pump
The walbro GSS 342 fuel pumps are the same pump used in the dodge viper, and are good for about 500-600 hp on E85.
255 liter/hr = 255000 cubic centimeters of fuel an hour. E85 has a specific gravity of about 0.79 so at max flow the pump should deliver about 201450 grams of E85, at 454 grams per pound that is 453 pounds per hour of E85.
The rule of thumb for gasoline is it takes .5 lbs/hr to make 1 horsepower for one hour. On E85 that number is about .7 lbs/hr.
So at 453 pounds/hr of fuel a single Walbro 255, can pump divided by .7 = 633 hp (MAX) (for a single pump)
Dual pumps about 1200 hp max unless you feed them a bit more than 13.8 volts. In a high power application you want to make sure your fuel pump supply voltage is high and stable. Some folks use voltage stabilizers intended for high end sound systems to feed the pumps 15 -17 volts at max power.
Now all that assumes you have no fuel system restrictions and are providing rated supply voltage to the pump and that your pumps are delivering rated fuel flow.
The ONLY way to know is to run a test and time how long it takes for you pump to move a fixed amount of fuel through the installed fuel system.
Tap a line off your fuel rails and run a hose into a fuel can and measure how long it takes to put 10 pounds of E85 in the can.
I think double Walbro pumps are plenty of pump for your situation unless you have a restriction in your system some where or problems with voltage supply to the pumps. Triple pumps would provide a very nice safety factor.
Dave Buscher has done testing on double Walbro fuel pumps and depending on the output fuel pressure needed and supply voltage they can feed between 888 and 1500 hp.
Larry |
hey whats up bud! thanks for the info!
my fuel hat holds three pumps feeding into a -8 port at the top of the hat.
i was thinking maybe running a y block and run -8 and have it split to 2 -8's all the way to the regulator.
or do you think a single -8 to the front is sufficient? |
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hotrod
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 872
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Doing well!
In high pressure fuel systems fuel line diameter is almost never an issue. In low pressure systems on carburetor systems it can be a problem but a 3/8 inch inside diameter fuel line will feed enough fuel at 43 psi to make well over 500-600 hp, -8 would supply all the fuel you are likely to need at typical pressures used in fuel injection. In fact you can make the fuel line too big on injector systems. Had a guy tell me he went to all the trouble to increase line size to 1/2 inch ID on his drag car and he slowed down. Went back to the smaller line and the car picked up speed again.
Not sure if it is due to line volume being so big that the pump cannot make up pressure drops fast enough or if it is due to fuel heating because the fuel spends too much time in the line due to its large volume.
Eaton Aero quip has a chart on their web site for recommended line sizes for oil lines, and if you make allowances for gasoline or E85 being thinner and easier to move it is clear to see that line size is not much of an issue in EFI systems running 40+ psi fuel pressures.
See page 357 in this catalog appendix
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/A-HOOV-MC001-E1_343-380_Appendices_LR.pdf
If you use the maximum recommended flow rate of 15 ft/second a 3/8 inch ID line can flow 330 gallons per hour or 2145 pounds of gasoline an hour ---- enough to feed a 4000 hp engine.
Larry |
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