E85Forum.com

JLAudio11 · Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 4 Location: Valparaiso, IN

I've been running E85 in my bike for a little over a year and have been very happy thus far. I started thinking I wasn't getting all it's potential and have started looking further.

My first question is on oxygen sensors. Which brand/model do you guys prefer running ethanol? Are there any that are ethanol safe or hold up better to ethanol? I have a dynojet wideband commander right now with the bosch lus4. I'm starting to think it may be going bad. Had my buddy dynotune my bike and turn on my logger while he was doing it. I wasn't there, just wanted to compare afr #'s later. He tuned it to around 12.5 through the powerband. When I pulled up the runs later on mine it showed 13.0-13.1 ish. When I take it to the track mine is showing again 13ish and seems to like more fuel. My best passes to date were when it was showing all the way down to 12.2. I understand that usually when an o2 sensor goes bad it usually shows lean. What do you guys think is my o2 sensor going bad or does it just like a lot more fuel at the track with ram air?

Next question is on alternate ethanol fuels. I've heard there are multiple places to get e98 or ethanol right from the refinery in the midwest. I haven't found much straight from the refinery and e98 in barrels seems to be shipped in from down south and not very cost efficient.
What I can get very easily is denatured alcohol. 95% ethanol +/-4% methanol +/- 1% water. I know I would have to drain this after runs as the methanol would like to eat some rubber and corrode metal. I have ran it but didn't have very good results. My buddy dynotuned my bike on this early in the year and it made decent power on the dyno but ran like crap on the road and at the track. Maybe it still needs more fuel at the track? I got tired of messing with it and went back to normal E85.

Thanks,
Justin
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2006 Kawasaki ZX10R on E85

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Justin- I have to plead ignorance on bikes and specifically the O2 and tune software you are using. I do know that on Daimler FFV's that when the O2 is failing they will make the PCM call for so much fuel on E85 the back of the bumper can go black Shocked

- that's bad when a low carbon fuel can do that Laughing

E98- there is at least two E98 drum suppliers in WI (one SE and one NE) and at least one NE of you up in MI. I do not know about near the Valpo area. I do think you might not like E98 for street use- the gas in E85 helps bring heat up and cool temp operation will be better.

JLAudio11 · Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 4 Location: Valparaiso, IN

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any contact information for these places that I could buy e98 in barrels from. Also your rough estimate on pricing for maybe one youve dealt with. Feel free to pm me if this site doesnt allow non site sponsor info. As for my tuning, I use a dynojet powercommander 3. (About the most common piggy back fuel tuner). My data logging is the wideband commander. Actually pretty nice with programmable outputs controlled by afr, tp, and rpm. I bought the whole setup used and it appeared to be in great shape. The previous owner only ran gasoline through it. Maybe the sensor hasn't worn out prematurely from ethanol, but instead just worn out from age. I just dont want to waste money on another one if it's goin to happen again very quickly if there is a different o2 that will hold up better. Has anyone had any luck with the ntk sensors?
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2006 Kawasaki ZX10R on E85

murphinator · Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Posts: 93

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Southeastern WI;
Chad Schmidt
262-492-4744
smokey1226(at)yahoo.com
http://schmidtsgasngo.com/index.html

Ohio guy here;
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=617

Michigan guy here (NE MI);
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=879

I buy whey based ethanol from a small plant in NE WI who will drum it also but others are far closer to you. At the corn ethanol plant I work out of there is no way to drum it- everything is set up for 450-500 gpm Laughing

Because of labor, drums, and small lot shipping and no tax credits drummed E98 is going to cost a lot more than pump E85- just sayin', but if that is what you want for on the edge tuning then it is a good route to go. There is one more even more expensive but consistant way to go--Rockettbrand E85 (a blend of E98 and race gas) which is available at rockettbrand.com

As far as O2 sensors go-- there is no reason I can think of that ethanol would pull life out of an O2 sensor faster than gas. Ethanol leaves fewer deposits and will generally be a little cooler.

JLAudio11 · Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 4 Location: Valparaiso, IN

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

JLAudio11 · Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 4 Location: Valparaiso, IN

I'm goin to check to see if my wideband can be calibrated but I think that is one of it's shortcomings. As for the sensor placement I wasn't even thinking about what you mentioned when it was installed. It is positoned about 7-8 o clock right now. I did this to keep it closer to the bike and out of the way slightly. At this point it will have to do. I dont want to weld another bung into a very expensive and visible exhaust. I'll post a pic when I get home to show its placement.
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2006 Kawasaki ZX10R on E85

murphinator · Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Posts: 93