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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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 Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: Here is a game changer for E85 |
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http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/03/all-2011-buick-regals-to-be-flex-fuel-capable-from-this-fall/
The engine in this 2011 Buick Regal will not be available until the second half of 2011 but when it does- it will change public perception on E85. This new FFV engine is turbocharged and will reportedly operate in the single digits for % spread in mpg from gas to e85. Not only that but puts out more horses on E85 (no suprise to us here). This appears to be the tech GM/Saab was working on when Saab and GM ran out of money. What this means is that E85 can spread farther from it's home Midwest base and still have a lower cost per mile (does not need the 20% price spread most FFV's need for breakeven). Furthermore for those who drank the gas koolaid and thought E85 provided less power they should feel the difference in this stock FFV- then they can put away their old ideas.  |
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murphinator
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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us regal guys are eagerly anticipting it 
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PB's 1/4 mi 12.209, 117.75 trap ,1/8 mi 7.76 ,93.99 trap , 1.949 short time 4.53 0-60
I tune with HP Tuners software |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought you might be watching this Murph Couldn't log on to TurboBuick tonight to see if it was already in circ over there - the site seems to be down. |
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murphinator
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Alcohol wrote: | | I thought you might be watching this Murph Couldn't log on to TurboBuick tonight to see if it was already in circ over there - the site seems to be down. |
the Grand National guys will definately be interested.
hmmm a buick with an "undersized" motor thats turboed sounds like the GN's in the 80's - set up to run on e85 from the factory win win
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PB's 1/4 mi 12.209, 117.75 trap ,1/8 mi 7.76 ,93.99 trap , 1.949 short time 4.53 0-60
I tune with HP Tuners software |
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newalky
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Alcohol do you think this will cause the price of E85 to go up? Or end the subsidies that keep the price low?
I have seen stations that didn't have much a price spread also didn't sell as much as those that had, say .50/gal less than gas. newalky |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| newalky wrote: | Alcohol do you think this will cause the price of E85 to go up? Or end the subsidies that keep the price low?
I have seen stations that didn't have much a price spread also didn't sell as much as those that had, say .50/gal less than gas. newalky |
E85 is less than 1% of all ethanol sales right now since there are only 2,000 stations and thus does not affect ethanol supply. I do not think most station owners really are tracking E85 price as % of the gas price- they sure do not here. Most are just stuck on so many cents/gal regardless of if gas is $2 or $4. The blender credit will go away sometime in the future anyway so this is why it is so important that the cars run at near the gasoline mpg. While right now wholesale rail lot ethanol is in $1.45 to 1.50 range and 87 octane gas is 2.40-2.60 (both fuels pre-tax and pre-credit)---in the winter gasoline always comes down and E85 requires more of it in the mix to raise vapor pressure- narrowing the price gap. I see this new tech as in the long haul (10 years or more to populate the fleet) helping to cut the blender credit while remaining a good deal. I also see it helping E85 station growth in traditional oil areas such as Texas where the oil is close by and ethanol production has not yet been highly implemented. Today it costs about 15 cents to rail ethanol from the midwest down to Dallas. Given time Texas will have it's own ethanol production (dryland sorgum, algae. milo, etc) and with this new type of engine E85 can easily compete. Same for east coast where European gasoline comes into the NY harbour cheaply and MSW or celluosic based ethanol has not yet sprung up in your back door yet ethanol is railed from the midwest today.
Also remember that there is going to be a legacy fleet of FFV's out there that will still need a 15-22% price spread for breakeven- these will be out there for another 10-15 years. If you have an E85 station, you need volume, you will have to think long and hard about raising prices lower than the 20% spread when the volume users are big tank Suburbans, Yukons, Silverados, F150's, etc.
In summary- no I do not see it causing E85 stations to raise prices and instead see it helping to expand the network of E85 stations.
Last edited by Alcohol on Wed May 05, 2010 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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murphinator
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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it would be nice to see motor trend , road & track etc.. test performance on both fuels individually- it would be huge for the average joe to see that e85 produces more power than gasoline
people hear that its less efficient , has less energy in it , etc because it gets less mpg it would be nice to seeits strengths showcased
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PB's 1/4 mi 12.209, 117.75 trap ,1/8 mi 7.76 ,93.99 trap , 1.949 short time 4.53 0-60
I tune with HP Tuners software |
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