E85Forum.com

Sinner · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 33

As it gets cooler, I am having a harder time starting my 2004 Ford Taurus FFV. When I have E-10 in the tank it starts right up, with E85 it gets a bit scary. I almost gave up this morning on getting it started.

Anyone else?

Lgodave · Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 28 Location: WI

Hi,

What kind of temp. is it outside when you have this "cold start" problem?

I'm not sure when stations start rolling out "Winter Blend" Gasoline and E85... but since Winter Blend E85 is actually more like E70... You may want to add a bit more gasoline to your Tank until "Winter Blend" E85 becomes more common. Hopefully that fixes the problem.

If running E70 or less continues to cause problems you may have to verify your Vehicle's Fuel System, etc. is working OK. Smile

Is your Fuel Filter due for a change? Not that it's a problem, but changing it every few years is cheap insurance againest any number of issues.

Sinner · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 33

Thanks for the reply!

It is getting to be a bit colder here in the orning, but I had touble in the middle of the afternoon at about 78 degrees...

I guess it's time for another visit to my "friendly" Ford dealer...

I will stop at a E10 pump on the way home an top off the tank. I will let all yall know if that helps.

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

A short term work around until you can get it fixed by the Ford dealer is in cold weather, add a couple gallons of gasoline per tankful.

On my converted WRX is makes a huge difference in cold start.

Larry

Revision · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 194 Location: Carol Stream, IL

What is it about ethanol that makes a harder cold start?
Is it because the vapor pressure is lower so it doesn't atomize properly in colder weather?

I know that when I was tuning my TEC3 for winter cold start I had to add in a LOT of fuel in the cold start enrichment table to get it to start properly with regular fuel. Would it make sense that E85 has it worse?

Edi · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Germany

When it is cold the vapor pressure of fuel is smaller, because ethanol has too small vapor pressure than gasoline. Here in Germany Ford has for degrees under -15 °C an electric heating for the motor inside. Or people can take more gasoline to E85. May be also a little bit aceton or methylethylketone taking inside the fuel can help, so the vapor pressure oft the mixture increses.

Sinner · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 33

5 Gallons of E10 made a huge improvement.

PumpingE85 · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 25

Guys:

Ford has been experiencing a little problem with (mostly) the 04 and 05 Taurus FFVs. They did away with the flex fuel module and now rely on exhaust gas sensors to 'back-calculate' engine settings. Some do not seem to work well in any temperature.

Unfortunately, some friendly service techs blame "the fuel." In reality, they are working on a recalibration. A technical service bulletin put out earlier this summer did not solve the problem.

Please do the following:
- report the problem to the dealer service dept.
- they should be working through the technical service hotline if they cannot diagnose the problem at the shop.
- if a couple of calls to the hotline do not solve the problem, they are suppose to involve the regional engineer in the problem (this can take awhile)

It seems that they do not always report the problem properly, so, no one up the change is seeing "statistically" all the problems.

Please push on your local service dept to report it properly -- or they may never get their act together.

Of course, you always threaten to trade it in on a new Chevy Impala or Monte Carlo FFV. No reports of problems with the GM/GMC systems -- they, too, have dropped the flex-fuel module.

Winter-blended E85 is entering the market now. You should NOT be experience starting problems at 40F or 78F!!! This is NOT a fuel issue. You could very well experience starting concerns if the vehicle is parked outside without a block heater for an extended period when temps are below 0F.

People in Sweden and International Falls, MN, don't seem to have a problem running E85.

Sinner · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 33

Do you have a link to info on the Ford issue, it sounds WAY too much like my recurring CEL problem on my 2004 Taurus

specialgreen

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

I would suspect the change occurs about the same time that the emissions challenged areas are forced to go to winter blend oxygenated fuels.

I've seen a list of the dates for that will try to find it.

[edit] http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/oxy-area.pdf

Ball park it is from around October through about February but each region is slightly different. In most parts of the country the coldest winter temps are most likely from mid Nov through late February.

Larry

specialgreen · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject:

Interesting reading: seeing that most of the states which originally had the "winter oxygenated fuel" category are dropping it for weaker approaches, Minnesota has done just the opposite, and gone from a seasonal winter-blend to year-round state-wide E-10. And while other states pull back from oxygenated fuel, Minnesota is pushing for statewide E-20. It kind-of makes it look like Minnesota is "out in left field" (or is it right field? ... or maybe just "out standing in our field").

Maybe I'm not seeing something, but if we're serious about controlling our fuel supply, then the US should do a nationwide 5% ethanol blend. Even a 3% blend would make a difference in our energy policy.

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

specialgreen · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:40 am Post subject:

Sinner · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 33

Just to update:

My 2004 Taurus FFV is now at the dealer for CEL. Armed with the knowledge in this thread, I am making them fix the problem. It has been there since opening and I just got a call from them saying that they will not finish tonight.

Must have made an impression!

Will let you all know what happens tomorrow