E85Forum.com

BillBallinger · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

I have a 1965 Ford Galaxie with a twin outlet 2" deep sump 15 gallon aluminum fuel cell with foam baffling, -8 AN Aeroquip socketless FC-332 hose with a Holley Blue pump and regulator. It presently has an Edelbrock 800 AVS, but I also have a 750 Holley DP to work with. The reason for the fuel cell and AQP hose conversion was more because of the rusty overly expensive to replace gas tank and rotten 5/16" 40 yr old line than for drag strip use. But its there, just in case...

The engine I have now does OK with pump gas at 9.5:1, on 89 octane, but I have an 11:1 engine also that I would like to run E85 with. At 11:1 I might even cut it to say E40-50 with 87 octane regular if compatability is a big issue.

What do I need to change in my system to be compatible with E85 straight though? The FC-332 hose is elastomer and textile braid (NHRA legal) , so it should be fine, but is this stuff really that hard on aluminum? My fittings are all anodized, but the fuel cell, carb, pump and regulator are regular aluminum. I can always build another motor with more compression too.

Also, in the past days when ethanol was going to run in the tank as well as the jugs, Wink

it would be run through a cotton sack of corn grits to dry the water out . If you didn't the water could seperate and eat the cylinders up. You would put the finished "fuel" in a closed mason jar and shake it, and if it made one big bubble in the middle and none around the perimeter it was OK. I am thinking the electric pump should prevent the seperation, and with 14 PSI regulated to 5 going to the carb, water should stay in suspension and keep the EGTs down as it goes through with the fuel. But I may be wrong.

Any information is appreciated. We are just beginning to see some E85 popping up here and there, and that 11:1 motor is a lot hotter 'tater than whats in it now. Here's the victim.

_________________
My ancestors ran it in jugs to survive, I want to run it to keep the world alive.

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

Welcome to the forum!

Neat car reminds me of the police cars used in my home town when I was a boy.

We have folks running 12.5 :1 compression on E85 and wishing they had more compression so 11:1 will be no problem even on a partial blend.

The first thing I would do is check with the fuel cell manufacture, some of the fuel cell foams break down over time with ethanol so you may want to either change out the foam or keep an eye on it, and be prepared to replace it periodically, depending on what they say.

I would be inclined to have the fuel cell and other bare aluminum parts anodized or hard anodized then you don't have to worry at all about corrosion of those pieces.

So far we have not seen much of any problems with bare aluminum and corrosion but some of the aftermarket manufactures that are coming out with E85 specific parts like carburators are getting them coated so it seems like the prudent thing to do.

Edlebrock just came out with an E85 carburator so you might want to look into that if you would rather just have a plug and play solution on the carburator. A few people have modified the old carburators by increasing fuel flow in all the circuits by about 27% -30%. This includes idle circuits, acceleator pumps / squirters, power valves etc. If you are handy with carburators and have the parts on hand it is certainly doable.

I am not sure about the Holly blue pump, if it is anodized internally it should be okay. I am running an Aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regulator, an their tech support told me that the florosilicone material they use for the diaphram is compatible with E85. I am also running a Walbro GSS-342 fuel pump that is not listed as compatible but has worked well for about 37,000 miles so even though some of your components are not "listed" as compatible they may in fact be serviceable at least for a few thousand miles.

You might want to call Holly and see what materials they used in the pump and regulator.

If you choose to replace those pieces if you have low hours on your current ones, I'm sure you can sell them used to someone local to recover part of the expense.

Let us know how things work out.

The only things I know are not acceptable with E85 are the older Holly cork/rubber composition gaskets for the metering blocks and float bowles.

Many of us are using components that are not supposed to be compatable but way too many of us are getting away with it so I suspect that even if you have some problems with compatibility it will take a good amount of time and usage to show it up.

Larry

hotrodfeguy · Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 43 Location: Green Bay WI

I know the holley black is but not sure about the blue.

hotrodfeguy · Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 43 Location: Green Bay WI

Good to see ya here BB Laughing

BillBallinger · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

I don't know what happened to my picture, I think its a Network54 thing. I am going to have to get a Putfile account or something. Smile

I asked RCI about the cell and they said long term use with highly concentrated ethanol is not reccomended, and anodizing would be very expensive. What I may do is use a little bit of Marvel Mystery Oil (oil of wintergreen) and other similar oils (witch hazel?) in a test to see if it titrates out as a closer to neutral PH of any formic acid that forms, and reduces the hygroscopic tendencies of the fuel.

If a person had a receptacle of the same aluminum, put E85 in it and ran a few test strips on it with varying ccs of MMO or other of the type per unit of fuel, it might reveal some protection or at least a neutralization of the formic acid that gathers at the boundary layer of water and fuel. I have recently lost most of my sight, so it may a bit before I can get the adaptive technology to do this test myself. If anyone here is set up to do it feel free.
_________________
My ancestors ran it in jugs to survive, I want to run it to keep the world alive.

cessna · Joined: 06 Nov 2006 Posts: 52 Location: Iowa

I've had a piece of 5052 aluminum in E85 for a couple of years and still no sign of corrosion.
Marty

BillBallinger · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

My cell is tig-welded 5051 aircraft aluminum. Its an RCI 2150AS 15 gallon with the aircraft style filler. Is 5051 much different from 5052?
_________________
My ancestors ran it in jugs to survive, I want to run it to keep the world alive.

cessna · Joined: 06 Nov 2006 Posts: 52 Location: Iowa

Bill, I googled the difference and they have the same ingredients---just different amounts. My guess would be that ethanol would work the same. Curious why your fabricator used 5051 instead of 5052 as most gas tanks I've heard about are 5052.
Marty

BillBallinger · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

My guess is that many vendors simply do not know and "when in doubt say no!" is the option of choice in a lawyer happy society.

If it will survive methanol for a day with draining it will certainly survive E85.
The one unique issue may be the foam inserts some fuel cells use --- they may not like E85, but the aluminum cell itself should have no problem.

I also suspect that there is probably some fuel tank sloshing compound that is E85 safe but we would probably have to run tests as the manufactures mostly sell it to aircraft and motorcycle folks (and a few restoration folks), so we are not high on their list of customers.

Larry

hotrodfeguy · Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 43 Location: Green Bay WI

I say run it and see, I plan on running it in a plain old steel tank. My Fairlanes tank is 1964 so we will see. You can't tell me that back in the day Shine runners used anything other than a old steel tank.

BillBallinger · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 6