E85Forum.com

Fredster · Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

Hello every one,

I would just like to know your opinion about George W. Bush's travel to Brazil as far as ethanol deal goes. I would like to get your opinions as far as political, environmental and technological issues goes.

This is not an invitation to bash against the president.

Personnaly, i am not afraid of expressing my opinion, i have no preference as far as democratic or republican parties goes. I am a canadian and i will vote for the candidates in my country anyway. I will express my opinion though.

We all know greenhouses gasses damage the earth's equilibrium. Wether some people prefer refering to global warming as a natural cycle of earth, I definetely believe the overabundance of humans consuming a lot more than their natural share of the natural resources, compared to other species, is definetely a problem for the climate.

I often refer to earth as a 'plat de petry', you know the experience most of us did in high school where we seed organisms in a experiment dish to analyse the growth of micro organisms ... after a while the overgrowth of micro organisms in the dish actually kills all of the life because of the overabundance of micro organism's ''crap'' (for lack of a better word). This is what is happening with our mother earth. Except that mother earth will have her way ... not the life on the surface. This seems like a pessimistic approach to the problem. Let's just say we must enjoy life while we still have a quality of life.

On another hand, we have renewable energy available and non renewable energy available. We have focused our attention mostly on non renewable energies and, even more worrying, is that the use some of these non renewable energies are very polluting to the environment.

The President of United States of America, on the end of his last mandate, has turned his attention to the problematic and closed a deal with Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on the ethanol production. The country is, i believe, one of the leaders in production and use of ethanol as a fuel for transportation. Not only do they not use over draining corn for production, they also have good knowledge about it's appropriate consumption.

no Mr. President, do not mistake this for a good bottle of Scotch lol Laughing

My opinion is that, on economical side, it's beneficial for both latin america and america, as this will help produce jobs and partnerships on a globalisation standpoint, and it will most likely reduce the price of the fuel at the fuel station for the consumer.

On the environmental side, the advantage is obvious.

Now I don't understand why a lot of people had a very negative response to the president's visit in Sao Paulo

Although i believe it is because most people is against war in iraq ... war at all as a matter of fact. But this has nothing to do with the president's visit in brazil ... and the picture demonstrates the irony of the opposition, as the americans made a great effort to put a stop to the ethnic cleaning conducted by former dictator Saddam Hussein.
This may look like i am defending the position of the president, and i will not disregard the conflicts of interests with the military and fuel positions in the political decisions of the president.
I have visionned both documentaries by Michael Moore and have understood the perspective concerning the situation inherent with the Bush family, and was astonished by the lack of right to access to objective information in the very country that prides itself for seek of freedom.

We must acknowledge the fact that political figures, in all countries that is, do have powerfull positions not just by being a couch potato. They actually take decisions and make a true difference in this world. So of course they will take professionnal decisions in favor of their personnal interests. It is a logical take on the political and economical sharks that lead our world. It must not be overabused to the extent where other people will suffer.

It is also a good thing that fiery Venezuelan President Mr. Chavez keeps a devilish eye on Mr. Bush, garantying an equal treatment as far as global contracts goes ... Although Mr. Chavez is using cheezy statements such as ''Go home Gringo'', i do understand his fear of the USA's predominance ... It is obvious though that the Venezuelan President is fearing loss on it's oil value to the advantage of Brazil ... !

I just hope the Asian continent will follow the ecological path as a very large consumer potential has risen there recently. It is a global problem that calls for global solutions. Therefore globalization is necessary to produce measurable results.

Let just ourselves help ourselves ... and react in a civilised manner to help ourselves lead a constructive future. Do understand, that our time on earth is not given by our ancestor's ... just loaned by our heir.

I do not pretend to understand politics in depth. This is why i want to read your opinions for the ethanol deal.

I just thought this was appropriate with the forum !

Fred
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I guess Hubert Reeves thinks this is an important matter
Cost of Can. Gov. studies on global warming ? xx M$
Cost of industrial scientific studies for alternative energy sources ? x M$
Cost of a 100$ batch of distilled ethanol ?
Priceless

Boosted3Bar · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 50 Location: San Antonio, TX

Great post, I'll have to research more details regarding this issue. My concern at this point with an ethanol deal with Brazil is that an outside force could have impact on the ethanol industry/economy in the US. The reason I converted to ethanol was to get away from foreign exports. I want as much of my money as possible going to American refineries and farmers.

Now if the deal is to share technologies, I think that is a great idea. We are going to need some help getting this new fuel readily available all over the U.S. without driving prices up on other goods that rely on corn (like chicken and livestock) for their production. This requires alternate sources of ethanol and new technologies to refine those sources into fuel. I know some of these plants are in the works, but maybe a deal with Brazil can speed up this process and also solve problems before they happen as things usually go wrong when a technology is brand new.

I look forward to seeing other peoples views on this.
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2003 Grand Prix GTP

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2155875

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

As I've mentioned a few times, this board trys to avoid getting embroiled in political debate. I congratulate you on taking a non-confrontational approach for the discussion of the world wide implications of such a deal, and the use of ethanol as a fuel source.

As long as the discussion stays :
Non-confrontational
well mannered and well reasoned.

I will allow the thread to remain open for discussion.

Please everyone, if you have nothing good to say about a particular political figure please don't say it. If you can voice your thoughts as an adult and well reasoned discussion I think it has merit.

I personally feel it was a wise move on several fronts.
It helps with the public image of America in the America's and the more viable the alternet energy fuels become the less of a head lock the major oil producers will have on the worlds (and the U.S.) economy.

I think the development of a strategic reserve of bio-fuels would be another way to provide a cushion against fossil fuel price and supply shocks and increase the level of cooperation we see from some nations that base their entire economy on getting the maximum profit possible out of a limited and finite commodity.

I think the issue of the possible over use of a single agricultural crop for fuel ethanol is just as valid for sugar cane as it is for corn, and have some simpathy for the concerns of some regarding the possible impacts on rain forest depletion if Brazil and other countries in the America's get into a boom market mentality for fuel ethanol.

Like many such agreements or plans, many wither and die over time and others slowly grow to build a new economic engine for an entire region.

Only time will tell on that one.

Larry

Fredster · Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

Fredster · Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

BURNALCOHOL · Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 50 Location: Raymond,NE

I don't know that it will have any negative effects.

What little extra ethanol Brazil has to export was already being exported to the US tariff free.

Brazil sends the un-distilled ethanol to some Caribbean country that all ready has free trade with the US and that country distills it then exports it here.
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Jeremy Nicholls

stonent · Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 17

Remember, in the US we have to use anhydrous ethanol for blending with gasoline. Brazil uses hydrous ethanol (up to 10% water content or more) because they run it straight and the water vaporizes.

If we get Brazilian ethanol, we'll still have to dry it out.

Fredster · Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

Fredster · Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 111