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specialgreen
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Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 259
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: are Hondas too fuel-efficient to use E-85? |
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A Bloomberg article carried in the LA Times relates that, although Toyota has promised future flex-fuel models, Honda has stated that it's not interested in ethanol.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-honda26aug26,0,7980377.story?coll=la-headlines-business
A Honda rep states:
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"We're not against it... It is less efficient from a fuel-economy standpoint."
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The article reports that Honda plans to focus on hydrogen, natural gas, and on a diesel car that is "clean enough to be sold in all 50 U.S. states". An analyst claims that Honda's position reflects the relative paucity of E-85 filling stations.
The article concludes with a discussion of how American domestic manufacturers are using Flex-Fuel vehicles to gain credits towards their CAFE compliance, while Honda has no need of these credits (and therefore has less incentive to support E-85).
Last edited by specialgreen on Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Revision
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Carol Stream, IL
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.dispatch.com/business-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/08/26/20060826-B8-04.html
More of the same. Only you don't have to log in to read this link. 
Its probably has more to do with Honda's current parts bin. Nothing in it is really fully E85 capable. They'd have to change out a lot of major parts to get their cars to even HOLD E85 without clogging.
Better to start from the ground up with a new base, like a diesel engine. This also gives them a different angle than what the BigThree are trying seeing as they don't really have a econobox diesel. |
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hotrod
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 872
Location: Colorado
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Revision
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Carol Stream, IL
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: Honda develops Cellulose Ethanol techniques |
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In other Honda news.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/09/13/021840.html
and
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14831968/
| Quote: | | Research Institute of Innovative Technology for the Earth (RITE) and Honda R&D Co., Ltd., the Honda Motor Co., Ltd. subsidiary responsible for research and development, today announced that their cooperative research has resulted in ethanol production technology from soft-biomass*, a renewable resource of plant-derived material |
The article goes on to explain how current cellulose ethanol extraction techniques leave in fermentation inhibitors which result in a low ethanol yield.
| Quote: | | Now, RITE and Honda have successfully developed the RITE-Honda process, which substantially reduces the harmful influence of fermentation inhibitors. The RITE-Honda process succeeds through utilization of RITE strain, a microorganism developed by RITE that converts sugar into alcohol, and by application of engineering technology of Honda, enabling a significant increase in alcohol conversion efficiency, in comparison to conventional cellulosic bio-ethanol production processes. |
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Now this begs the question.
Honda Automotive has announced they are not interested in building E85 cars.
Honda research has just announced a breakthrough in cellulose ethanol.
Who is fooling who?
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edit:
| Quote: | "We’re not against it," Honda’s U.S. sales chief, John Mendel, said of developing so-called flex-fuel vehicles that can use an 85 percent ethanol mix.
"In the list of priorities right now, we haven’t moved it up the list. It is less efficient from a fuel-economy standpoint." |
from the Dispatch story above. See link: http://www.dispatch.com/business-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/08/26/20060826-B8-04.html
Maybe Honda wants to wait till E85 is more available and cheaper and then introduce a super efficient E85-ONLY vehicle (not flex fuel). Do a super knockout punch on Toyota and the Big3 with their inefficient Flex Fuel vehicles...
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edit#2:
I guess this begs for a poll..
If cellulose ethanol became a reality by 2009 or 2010 and E85 pumps were suddenly everywhere.. Would you buy a "Requires E85-ONLY" car? |
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imprezarsc
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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I didn't wait to build my e85-only car .
_________________
http://www.grantouringlabs.com My ethanol conversion and tuning site. |
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Revision
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Carol Stream, IL
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1outlaw
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Revision- I was wondering how the developments were coming on Indy's E100.
Think they will drink E100 instead of milk at the end of the race??? |
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specialgreen
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 259
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Something tells me there's more sponsorship dollars in potable ethanol products than in milk! But if they wanted to go that way, they would have already. |
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1outlaw
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you are right- less chance for unruly drivers and crews drinking milk than ethanol. |
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jachristner
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Kokomo, IN
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't state where that vehicle will be available. Could it only be for Brazilian markets as VW's TotalFlex vehicles are? It's disappointing to me to see technologies like TotalFlex and light-duty diesels, for the most part, unavailable in the United States.
I'd love to see some hybrids with alternative fuel engines, such as E85 and Biodiesel. |
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1outlaw
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jachristner wrote: |
It doesn't state where that vehicle will be available. Could it only be for Brazilian markets as VW's TotalFlex vehicles are? It's disappointing to me to see technologies like TotalFlex and light-duty diesels, for the most part, unavailable in the United States.
I'd love to see some hybrids with alternative fuel engines, such as E85 and Biodiesel. |
An article I had read on this new Honda Flex-fuel model indicated it was for Brazil and that it determined alcohol content via CO2 sensors. Both of those are a disapointment to me. |
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Revision
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Carol Stream, IL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I am SOOOO JEALOUS!!! ARRGGH...
The stats that have been listed for Honda's new E100 vehicle show that it has improved cold start ability due to having a separate tank for normal gas which it uses under certain temperature conditions and then changes over to the pure E100 mix. |
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fleebut
Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: Hondog |
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Well, Japan and most of the world other than Brazil has little production of ethanol. So, what to expect?
If consumers so foolish to only be concerned of mpg, well diesel fuel will easily push mileage since so loaded with heavy carbon molecules.
Ethanol more challenging, but nonetheless more rewarding of the environmental fuels. First, the fuel born upon the solar fields or what is commonly know as corn fields; no more than a few months ago. The field converts tons of CO2 to oxygen and water. The process of converting to fuel employs many and the fuel burns very environmentally clean. So, what's the problem.....back to Japan....they produce no ethanol. |
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