E85Forum.com

slowgoat · Joined: 18 Jan 2010 Posts: 4

Hello all,
I am new to this forum and looking for some answers..
Been looking in to mixing fuels to get e85

I can get e70 out of the pump and happen to have a drum of e98 at the shop..
Everything I read is talking about mixing e98 to unleaded to get to e85
I have not found anything having to do with mixing 2 ethanol products together

So is it possible to mix 50/50 e70 to e98 to get e85 or something there really close ??
Simple math says 70+98 ~ 2 = 84 is it that easy or is there more to it than this ??

Thanks for the help

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

If what you have is E98 denatured ethanol and you know the pump is E70--then by all means mix the two for E85. Your pure alcohol content will be 84% which is 1% stronger alcohol than real summer E85 which would be 83% (85% of E98).

I would recommend a little agitation-- or at least pour the E98 into the E70. (higher gravity on top). Best to roll the drum or lightly shake the container if it is going to be used soon. Once it is in solution agitation is not really necessary.

You are very fortunate to have E98 available-- just use it until summer grade is available then either save it for fall when E85 goes to 75-78% OR drum up summer E85 for fall racing. Keep the drum sealed at all times and do not leave the drum pump in it because it will not seal like the bung will.

slowgoat · Joined: 18 Jan 2010 Posts: 4

murphinator · Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Posts: 93

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Not quite--

There are only 4 ways for to test high ethanol blends for ethanol content;
1) Buy a kit like the GM shops have (expensive but fast-but also must be done exactly per directions)
2) run a test like the ethanol plants do-- Karl Fischer method (not practical due to equipment needed but by far most accurate)
3) install a new or used ethanol sensor on your car and also the equipment to read it (expensive but real handy)
4) run a phase separation test-- cheap and fairly easy but accuracy is likely in the +2 to -2% range. It looks like this;

http://iqlearningsystems.com/ethanol/downloads/E85test.pdf
Rather than go buy a 10ml pipette and a 100ml graduated cylinder you could pm Drag Chevette at this website (E85forum.com) or other race parts/carb suppliers for a test kit. These kits are easier to use. Mark's are larger for better accuracy while the Quickfuel ones are smaller but still nice.
Costs run about $30 down to $16 (for the smaller QF)

murphinator · Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Posts: 93

that illustration makes sense with the added water , mixing,settling , then measuring
_________________
PB's 1/4 mi 12.209, 117.75 trap ,1/8 mi 7.76 ,93.99 trap , 1.949 short time 4.53 0-60

I tune with HP Tuners software

skiracer · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject:

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.htm
_________________
'06 Evo IX Stage 1 by RRE,Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE flash, (325whp @ 22PSI 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85),Zeitronix wideband/Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi gauges

440Jim · Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 188

The water separation test works fine. Likely 1-2% accuracy depending on how careful you are. The summer batches I have tested typically measure 84-86%. For example.

slowgoat · Joined: 18 Jan 2010 Posts: 4

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

I use natural gasoline in my E85 which makes it also clear-- but I can see the line anyway- as long as I use a clean glass 100 ml grad cylinder.

Let's go back to how you are doing the test- are you first measuring out 50 ml of e85 to test and 48 ml of water?

I ask this just to make sure you are not doing the E10 test where you have 100ml of E10 and only add 10 ml of water-- that will do nothing in E85.

Yes- you can add a very small amount of color BUT- not sure what that will do to accuracy. It might be worth a try but I believe I did this once and got "funky" numbers.

slowgoat · Joined: 18 Jan 2010 Posts: 4

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

ahh- The QF tester is a very small sample and as such your lines may be a bit closer and harder to read than above. How long do you let it sit after shaking?

Since that is such a small sample then do try the food coloring trick to see if it changes the result at all- put a tiny tiny bit in the water first before combining with the fuel and let's see if it at least makes it visible for you on the first try.

I do not have the QF tester- I do the large sample like 440 Jim does. Only challenges of the big 100 ml sample is seal while shaking and keeping the big cyl and pipettes from breaking during transport. The QF kit is nice that way.

If all else fails you could add a known carefully measured amount of additional gas to a sample and then deduct that known % from the end results. That additional gas is probably yellow, will color the nat gas portion, and widen the two miniscus lines making it more visible. This might help if the E85 had too little gas in it to see it. Of course the gas floats to the top. The ethanol is always clear but with the large 100 ml test pictured above the ethanol gets a bit milky with the 48 ml of water in 50 ml of E85- I think that is the difference that is making it hard for you- If I remember right the QF tester has you putting in less than 1/2 water. If the gasoline portion is natural gasoline or even normal gas- that portion will not be murky/milky with water. Pretty sure this difference in test types may be what the difficulty is for you.