E85Forum.com

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 227

Its not an insurmountable problem, its nothing a set of sticky tires wouldn't fix. I splashed some winter blend E85 in with less than a gallon of premium left from the last fill and did a test lap down the road a bit. No CEL and it seems to run much better. I ran mostly blended fuel last summer when I took it on road trips to Nebraska, so the tank shouldn't be filled with gunk. I will still change the filter because its been getting worse mileage since before the trip last year.

It has a serious traction issue with 2.73 gears, a stock automatic, and 285 45 ZR 17 tires under it. Can you say smoke show? I gotta be careful those tires are expensive! I don't want to knock the rear end out of it either, that would be bad.

I will increase the blend until something happens, and this summer I plan to do some tuning on it with the laptop. If I can run both like it is, then that makes it easier on me. Will report back when I have more info on it.
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1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee.

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 227

Ran it down almost empty and filled with E85, probably still winter blend up here, guy at the station had no clue. He didnt seem surprised I filled with E85 either.

So no codes as of yet and it saw city and highway driving back to the house. Found out its exactly 32.1 miles from the station to my house. I opened it up a couple times but for the most part it seems to have quite a bit more torque under 2000 rpm and cruise at 63 mph is around 1700 rpm, so that is perfect. It never needed to drop a gear to go around someone, and now its even less effort to pass in OD.

Soon I will play with the tune a bit and see what happens, but for the first tank or two I will just run it stock and see how it does on mileage.
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1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee.

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

What kind of long term fuel trims are you running on about 65% yeast pee Thumpin?

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 227

Dont know, havent looked at the tune yet... It was almost empty today when I filled it, and that was after the first 5 gallon can at almost empty. Next tank will be E85 too..

I havent changed anything, just put it in and see if it throws a code. So far it just runs smoother, more power, and often I wonder if its still running at idle at stoplights. It used to vibrate and hum at stoplights. Also the idle is lower, it was around 900-1200 and now its a 650. When I put the headers on it, the guy who had the HP tuner upped the idle when he deleted the rear two O2 sensors. Now its back down to where it once was, but has no hesitation or any other bad habits.

I am wondering why I didnt try it before..
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1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee.

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

So it still has HP Tuner? I was thinking you had only the OEM ECM tune and were likely hitting a +20 to +25 LTFT--getting close to GM's CEL parameters. I do not know how HP Tuner is used.

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 227

Its not a module, you connect a laptop to the ADL port and actually change parameters in the tune program. You can adjust almost anything, including timing and fuel curves, along with shift points, firmness, and line pressures. I have a JET tuner that does the same thing, but I want to see how it does on the stock ignition/fuel tables before I change anything. I want to give it some time before I make any changes so if its going to throw a code I will know where to look. Besides if it doesn't throw a code, then where is the problem with driving one of these with E85 in it?

I do want to check the duty cycle of the injectors though, I know that can be a problem.
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1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee.

Tiago · Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 10

Gran Touring Labs · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 129

Please swap in colder plugs first. It's a quick and immediate temperature remedy. The cost is more heat in the cooling system. Up here in frigid temps, that is actually handy. The problem is low speed operation in the cold. I've had a couple of cold temperature misfires but not many. I give it a bit of gas during warmup a few times just to generate heat before leaving. Over about 40 degrees, my aluminum block does fine. It is partially my habits keeping the engine alive for so long. I don't romp it when cold!

Iron blocks and alum headed iron blocks behave differently with heat that a scooby. I have an open deck, all aluminum engine vs. an LT1 cast iron block with aluminum heads. Both are oversquare and use big injectors. We both run out of fuel pretty quickly from what I've found. That torque is what needs to be played with. Heat can still be managed. Colder plugs really woke up my combination. The reverse flow aluminum heads on Thumper's engine can dissipate the heat quicker vs. a classic iron headed Chevy.

Stay below a 50% blend and get some colder plugs. Since you have a programmer, bigger injectors shouldn't be an issue. Colder plugs are cheap, quick, and helpful when lean on E85. That IS how I am getting 33mpg in my oversquare and fuel thirsty Scooby. WOT AFRs are fine. Lean cruise really benefited from the colder plugs. Turbo boost does complicate things. Off boost, they don't really like colder plugs. A high compression n/a car is more forgiving of mistakes even if it is harder to dial in perfectly. I still love how consistent it feels everywhere across the rpm band. The torquey character is what makes them even more fun.

BTW, you're tires are going to hate colder plugs Wink

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Can't leave well enough alone? Neither can we.

TinkerFreaks

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 227

They hate the NGK plugs in it now. Im not getting into it until its well warmed up, no need to be breaking my aluminum V8. I havent opened it up to WOT yet, mainly because I know the injectors are on the small side, no need to break things. Its my cruiser, not my race car. The race car has more than twice the power and a 1050 Dominator on it. I was just surprised it spun the tires so easily down low, the stock converter stalls around 1500 rpm, so it doesnt need much RPM to spin the tires hard... at least on the yeast pee it doesnt. Before it wouldnt even make them squeak when running 91-93 camel whiz.

It doesnt get driven much since I go into town about three times a month, so it might take a while for me to run the tank out. Usually it only needs filled once a month, unless I am on a road trip to pick up my kids for the summer.

Im not putting injectors in it at this point, cant afford them. Its interesting that an unmodified car will run so much better and not hurt anything. I was curious about it, but I am by no means pushing the car hard.

Other projects are taking up the time, mainly a 79 TA that will be a mileage mule with the QJet this summer. But I know that in a pinch I can run my own fuel in the cruiser.
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1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee.

Gran Touring Labs · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 129

Interesting that it hates those plugs. I use copper race plugs and never had a problem. Iridiums suck on E85 and aren't adjustable for a tighter gap.

Nice to see you take it easy on your stuff. I just spun my clutch disc into dust and need a new one. The new headers worked a little too well. When I'm nice to it, it's nice to me.
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Can't leave well enough alone? Neither can we.

TinkerFreaks

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 227

The tires hate it, the engine doesnt seem to mind. I wont spend the money on iridium, put enough voltage through any spark plug and it will work just fine. No need for special stuff made from unobtainium.. Smile

I dont take it easy on all my equipment, just this one. The carbed engines will get beaten, especially the 467 that will be coming back next week. That one was built to take a beating, and plans are changing all the time around here. I figure dont upset the woman and life is easier, so if she wants to drive the E mule she can. I will build another car for the dedicated engine.

The only problem the LS1 has on E85 (probably around E70 right now) is traction issues at part throttle. That really has my interest peaked with the 467, since it made just over 700 hp on 92 octane... Now I wish it had 14:1 instead of 11:1 with aluminum heads.
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1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee.

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

Gran Touring Labs · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 129

Can you just light into it at part throttle in low gears? Crack the throttle and leave black stripes on the pavement? Midrange torque is indeed where I have (had?) the most fun :p. Subie 4 bangers makes the same style of torque as a V engine with their broad, flat torque curves. Give a torque engine a torque fuel and good things happen! One of the things that still consistently impresses me about E85 is that it is good throughout the RPM band and not just for one part of it. Notice how VP race fuels are formulated for different parts of the RPM band and different functions? E85 is the more versatile fuel, IMO. It can do both low end and top end and what matters is your tuning of the engine.

Hard to think that you already have traction issues on such a low blend. Would any suspension mods help like a torque arm or better shocks? Wider tires are good, but taller tires might utilize the torque a bit better and improve your mileage.
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Can't leave well enough alone? Neither can we.

TinkerFreaks

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Me thinks Thumpin needs a big 'ol strong throttle spring Laughing

Thumpin455 · Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 227

Nah I have restraint, no need to make it harder to push the loud pedal. That would only serve to make my knee ache more. Smile

Mind you I am not holding the brake and spinning the tires, I just whack it a bit off idle. The ol GTO will smoke the tires as long as you stay in it when you do that, no need to power stand these things. The GTO did that before it was switched to ethanol, actually you could drive along at 30 mph and stomp it and it would leave long patches. That was with an automatic trans, 2.93 gears, and 275 65 15 tires. So imagine what its like with ethanol in that 7.5L grunt monster.

The "race" car makes all of its power under 6500 rpm, and the torque off idle even with that thing is a smoke show without drag radials or slicks. I am not an RPM guy, that is part of why I like the ethanol so much. My engines last longer and make more power, to the point of being nearly undrivable. Cant wait to get my larger still up and running, it could be a seriously fun summer.
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1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee.