E85Forum.com Fueling the E85 community    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  wikipedia article has been re-organized          E85Forum.com Forum Index -> open forum on E85 ethanol fuel View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message hotrod Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: wikipedia article has been re-organized Just a heads up. A lot of the tech info that was formerly included in the basic E85 article on wikipedia cited above in the sticky, has been moved to a new section and flagged as "original research" and undocumented. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines If folks know of authoritative citations for those things we know to be fact due to our experiments please bring them to our attention or add the citation to the Using E85 in Standard Engines article. I will be taking a whack at the article when I get the time in the next day or so. Larry Back to top BURNALCOHOL Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 50 Location: Raymond,NE Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: I know this part isn't right: Quote: After-market conversion kits, for converting standard engines to operate on E85, are generally not legal in U.S. states subject to emissions controls, unless the converted vehicle is independently EPA certified. This is despite the fact that the exhaust emissions from any such converted cars are improved by utilizing higher percentages of ethanol in the gasoline blend.{{fact}} Unfortunately, EPA certification costs in excess of $23,000 and requires proof that the vehicle will maintain low emissions for at least 50,000 miles after the conversion.{{fact}} Most individuals won't give up their vehicles for the requisite 50,000 mile test period. Likewise, conversion kit manufacturers generally don't certify their kits due to the onerous and expensive burden of these laws. The kits would have to be tested with every model vehicle for which they are to be sold. If a kit is already certified as described, the EPA Federal Test Procedure for an individual's conversion costs $750. One can request a reduction of payment of down to 1% of the car's added retail value due to the conversion. A minimum fee may apply if the value added is not seen to be very high That stated cost would be for a non-USA certified vehicle or one that was made from scratch. If it has already been certified in the US that cost and the 50,000 mile test have already been done. All you need to do is show that the emmisions are the same or lower. The lower part about the $750 is for any conversion done to A vehicle that has already been certified. If the kit was US certified already you wouldn't even need to have any testing done. I am not vary good at re-writing things. I can give you the link for this info, but must warn it is one of those hair pulling bang your head on the wall type of documents. (Use your edit menu and click find "conversion" to help find the areas you need in this link) http://www.epa.gov/otaq/url-fr/fr11my04.pdf Questions 18 and 41 deal with topic and may be a little easier to follow: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cisd0602.pdf _________________ Jeremy Nicholls Last edited by BURNALCOHOL on Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total Back to top BURNALCOHOL Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 50 Location: Raymond,NE Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Here is a good one for ya: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/equip_processes.html Quote: Although ethanol-based fuels have been in use for decades, misconceptions persist concerning the impact ethanol will have on seals, elastomers and other components contained within the fuel dispensing system. DuPont, a major elastomer manufacturer, published information in 1993 indicating that high-blend ethanol (e.g E100) may actually be less troublesome than other, more common, gasoline additives. Download a copy of Leak Prevention of Reformulated Fuels and Oxygenates: Sealing Solutions to Protect the Environment and Meet Regulatory Requirements (PDF 874 KB) to learn more about this issue. http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/pdfs/oxyg_leak_prevent.pdf The link in the quote gives more detail of the results on the seals with different levels of concentration. _________________ Jeremy Nicholls Back to top hotrod Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: The Dupont paper is great info: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/pdfs/oxyg_leak_prevent.pdf Quick summary of seal performance from the paper (see paper for details) Seal materials suitable for ethanol and ethanol fuel blends Dupont product names: Viton GFLT- (best value - best low temp performance to -40 C others limit to about -20 C) suitable except MTBE and TAME Viton GF - suitable except MTBE VitonA-401c - excellent with ethanol and ETBE, not recommended with methanol, TAME or MTBE ZLX93004 - suitable for all, Neat MTBE caused moderate swelling Zalak 250GP Outstanding for all neat oxygenates and gasoline blends at any concentration Kalrez 4079 - Premier performance - Best compatibility and reliablility with any oxygenate, blends and reformulated gasoline. Larry Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         E85Forum.com Forum Index -> open forum on E85 ethanol fuel All times are GMT - 5 Hours Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Discussions----------------THIS FORUM IS MOVING TO E85FORUM.NETopen forum on E85 ethanol fuelNuts and Bolts  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group