E85Forum.com

newalky · Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 84

Which drum material is best for storing E85?
I have a steel drum which I have used in the past. When I loosen the bung caps it ALWAYS has a pressure release.
I have a plastic drum I have been using lately. When I loosen the bung caps it HASN'T released pressure.
The gaskets look good and I use a bung wrench to tighten the caps. I am concerned that it isn't sealing as good as the steel drum!
Does it matter steel or plastic?
Thanks, newalky

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Suitability will probably be different for different situations;

If the fuel is to be stored from the last of summer (for summer blend) to next summer- then I would go with the barrel that maintains the best seal (your steel drum)

If the fuel is only stored for 1-3 months and is kept inside where it is dry I see no problem with your plastic one. Also keep in mind that just because this barrel is not holding pressure but does maintain a decent seal- you are not really getting "free air" exchange or exposure to enough high humidity air to affect it in the short term- especially given that it is E85, not E100 which is more hydroscopic according to our lab folks.

One thing I would consider on the steel drum is excess pressure in hot weather- if this was a race gas barrel or even methanol drum then the barrel will likely be ok with some pressure (watch coatings however to make sure they are compatible). If this is just an used motor oil drum then I worry just a bit about pressure/safety should the fuel get hot and the drum is weak. Here is a safety device to prevent over-pressurization
yet also requires a light vacumm to open- minimizing air exchange- it fits in a 2" threaded bung
; http://www.jmesales.com/item/18035/Clay-Bailey-V-Fill-Cap.aspx

Note: I have not used this exact model myself but have used the nearly identical Cimtek branded one.

skiracer · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:30 pm Post subject:

I have VP 5 gallon plastic race jugs and i get a pressure release when cracking the vent once in a while.
_________________
'06 Evo IX Stage 1 by RRE,Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE flash, (325whp @ 22PSI 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85),Zeitronix wideband/Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi gauges

newalky · Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 84

Alcohol, thanks for your reply. It was a Torco race fuel drum.
I will look at the sealing surfaces on the plastic drum.
I will use the steel for over winter this year.
So what you are saying is unless the drum is outside with water sitting on top it is not going to EXCHANGE OR ABSORB water from the air or lose/evaporate.... What would it LOSE/EVAPORATE if it were to do so??

Also I learned not trust the 5 gal. plastic fuel jugs(for short term) storage.
I have had one split and one separate the top of the cap from expansion = DON'T LEAVE IN HOT TRAILER!!!
Thanks again for your EXPERTISE in E 85! newalky

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

There are differences in opinion if the E85 loses alcohol or gas first as they vent off- so I cannot tell you for sure though I suspect it is more of the gas that leaves. In E10 I am told it is more that the ethanol comes off first.

I am only saying on the plastic barrel that is not holding pressure that air exchange is going to minimal so short term storage (<3 months) is likely ok. I forget exactly where you are Newalky- IL is'nt it? If it is in an extremely humid place like the gulf or Ohio valley it might seem wise to even shorten this up a month. The steel drum however, I feel is good for longer periods as long as it holds a safe bit of pressure and vacumm such as what the fill cap/vent I posted could retain- same for the plastic if you can get it to seal better.

newalky · Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 84

Alcohol you have a good memory, northern IL. It gets pretty humid here, the last 3 races have been TERRIBLE! 73% .87 Vapor Pressure 133 Water Grains and .72 VP 50% 109 Wtr Gr. Thanks, newalky

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

I have stored E85 in plastic 5 gallon jerry cans for over a year with no problem. I filled them to the brim to minimize "breathing" due to barometric pressure changes and put them inside a 3 mil black plastic trash bag and closed off the bag with a few turns of black electrical tape.

Never had any problems.

Larry

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

newalky · Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 84

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

Thermal expansion is no big deal in a plastic jerry can, it is not like a rigid metal can, but can flex enough to compensate. By fill to the brim I mean to the base of the spout so there is still a little air space in the jug, but not a lot.

I have had split caps on plastic containers also, but I believe it is due to UV light exposure. If you leave a polyethylene plastic milk jug out in the sun it will turn brittle, and break like glass after a few years. That is why I stored the jugs in the shade inside a black plastic trash bag.

Also over tightening the caps will lead to splitting, you don't want to really crank down the caps beyond what will create a good seal, just firmly snug and they don't seem to have a problem.

Larry

440Jim · Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 188

FWIW,
I have been using "white" plastic 55 gallon drums to store my E85. They were originally methanol racing fuel drums (Interstate Racing Fuels). I almost always have vapor go out or in when I open it to drain fuel for the track (weekly). Just depends on the temperature if it goes out or sucks in.

Last year I filled it in the fall (Oct) and stored it full (55 gallons) until spring (Mar) and it gave me no problems in the race car. A/F sensor showed same readings as before. I finished using that fuel at the end of May. New fill in May, tested percentage ethanol. Last week I removed the last 5-10 gallons and re-tested it. It was the same ethanol content as "new".

Time to buy more E85.