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MarkB
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I've been running my car on E85 for just over a year now and having to convert it to run on super unleaded again would be a big step backwards performance wise 
This is all the information on the fireplace bioethanol i can get hold of, i'm thinking that mixed with 15% petrol it'll be ok to run my car on but just not sure about the chemicals its been denatured with?
UN1170 Ethanol solution 99.8% vol. Denatured with 1% methylethylketone and 12 ppm denatonium benzoate |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Mark- can you get the spec's for it--including what the denaturing agent is.
Normally industrial and medical ethanol is denatured with 5% methanol. It is useable but will likely lack corrosion inhibitor- which may not matter if you already bulletproofed your set up with stainless steel, etc.
Didn't Saab bring it's 9.5 FFV and Ford bring an FFV to the UK?
You likely got a double wammmy not only due to sugar prices rising last year (bringing up the Brazilian ethanol cost), but also were hit by a loss of tax break?. Bummer  This last summer Europe got a fair amount of USA ethanol in place of Brazilian but much of this had a long rail or barge trip to make to get to port. I see sugar prices are still up around $19-20 so it will likely take a new crop to drive ethanol prices back down. Sad to see the pump gone- that will be hard to bring back. |
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MarkB
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Yeah Saab and Ford both released flex fuel cars over here, think there was some Peugeots and more recently a 600 bhp Bentley that ran on it!
| Alcohol wrote: | | Mark- can you get the spec's for it--including what the denaturing agent is |
I'll see what else i can find out, thanks for the help so far  |
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440Jim
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 188
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| MarkB wrote: | Looks like its stopped here in the UK
I heard a rumour a while back about it being withdrawn from our petrol stations due to the government not subsidizing it anymore and when i went to my local filling station at the weekend the E85 pumps had been removed. |
Too bad they removed the pump.
I don't know what is going on in the UK, but that sounds like oil company propaganda to me. With all the tax the UK puts on gasoline, simply not taxing ethanol should make it dirt cheap compared to gasoline. Not taxing is not subsidizing. Subsidizing is paying to produce.
This point is not well spoken in the USA either. People call almost all govt policy that promotes something a subsidy. IMO, price supports (crops), and tax credits are subsidies. But tax deductions (normal business expenses) and simply not taxing is not a subsidy, it is simply less government; and that is a good thing. |
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drmatera
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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The local U-gas station here in Boca replaced their Diesel pump with E85. The owner is very happy as he reports selling twice as much E85 as he did diesel fuel.
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1986 Porsche 911 Turbo - Corn Fed
E85 in South Florida
$2.49 per/gal |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I must have missed the comment of the denaturing agents in the available alcohol. I do not think the MEK will be an issue and at 12 ppm I rather doubt the denatonium benzoate would be a problem either- but it would be good to email C Tech Corporation and see what they say about it salting out on an injector. |
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MarkB
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| Alcohol wrote: | | it would be good to email C Tech Corporation and see what they say about it salting out on an injector. |
What do you mean by salting out? I've never heard that term used before.
I bought 40 litres of that fuel last week and mixed it with 15% shell v power unleaded and it performed just as well as the pump fuel i was using previously. Need to find a cheaper source of ethanol though if i'm going to continue running on E85 as i just cant justify the cost of it at £2.50 a litre 
Have thought about going back to v power and adding 20% methanol as methanol is cheaper and easier to get hold of compared to ethanol.
Just out of interest i opened up my tank last week, removed the fuel pump, and cut up a section of one of my fuel lines and there where no adverse effects whatsoever from running on E85. I switched over to it mid way through 2009. |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: |
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"What do you mean by salting out? I've never heard that term used before. "
Basically just a deposit left by the concentration of a chemical where heat or cold will cause it to be left behind. Not sure if this is even possible with this chemical, but anytime you add something to a solvent such as alcohols or even gas (which is made up of several solvents) things can happen at different temps cold or hot. Likelyhood of this happening with this particular product at such low concentrations- low- but it never hurts to ask the manufacturer. |
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hotrod
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 872
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "What do you mean by salting out? I've never heard that term used before. " |
It is a process where you force one soluble chemical to drop out of solution by adding a different chemical that has a higher affinity for water. The chemical that has a higher attraction to the water molecules "steals" the water from the chemical with lower solubility and it can no longer stay dissolved and precipitates out of solution as a solid or separates into a separate layer.
http://chemeducator.org/sbibs/samples/spapers/11smi897.htm
The same concept applies to forcing stratification of a gasoline, ethanol water mix, buy cooling it. It uses a different concept but the same principle by creating a situation where soluability changes due to out side intervention, forcing something to drop out of solution.
At lower temperatures the water-ethanol mixture cannot remain dissolved in the gasoline and separates into a distinct layer leaving nearly pure gasoline and a layer of water-ethanol solution on the bottom of the container.
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Salt-Out/
Good illustrations of using the process for isopropyl alcohol. The problem with its use in fuels, is it leaves trace salt contamination of the alcohol that might encourage corrosion, but it is a brute force method to strip off a lot of water quickly.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4508929.html
Larry |
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murphinator
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Massachusetts is the closest state to me with e85 and they have gone from 2 stations to 4 in the last 6 months or so.
unfortunately neither of the 2 added stations are any closer to me but hopefully they keep expanding in MA and add one at the top of rt 95 somewhere so I can get it within an hour of me.
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PB's 1/4 mi 12.209, 117.75 trap ,1/8 mi 7.76 ,93.99 trap , 1.949 short time 4.53 0-60
I tune with HP Tuners software |
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