E85Forum.com

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

Hey guys,

So, I am gathering information and materials for a fall alcohol blast at my
farm. I've located large supplies of fallen apples, mesquite beans, prickly
pears, buffalo gourds, and tons of corn... all free for the hauling.

Instead of completely converting my vehicles (1 carb, 1 EFI), I am thinking of doing some blending for this first year.

According to David Blume's book, there is a small section on blending, and at my lowest expected temperature (14 degrees F), I should be able to mix 160 proof with 30% gasoline, and it should stay mixed. It seems strange to me, though I have seen some research to back up the claim that some mixes won't phase separate.

Well, 160 proof is a lot easier to make than 185 or higher. I might even be
able to do 2-3 solar distillations and get up to that concentration. I've seen
folks online get 100-120 proof on one pass with a solar still, so 2-3 passes
should be able to get it 160-170.

That means I could run E70.

Now, the only problem with this scheme is that I've also read that most cars can run up to E40 - E50 without any modifications. Some vehicles can run even higher, like E85 without any mods. (Orrie Swayze has a 93 Cadillac running E85 unmodified)

Do folks know which vehicles can run higher concentrations without mods?

It would be nice to just blend and run without mods, and as funds allow, do some mods later to improve mpg and performance. I'll probably start at E10, and slowly increase concentration and see how each vehicle handles it. I am getting rid of my EFI vehicle anyway, so if I could replace it with one that can run higher concentration without mods, that would be wonderful.

I think this strategy could be very useful for people who are interested in
getting started with alcohol fuels. Even if we stick to E50, it is a great savings in fuel cost, which can help fund conversions and infrastructure to
E100.

Does anyone have experience with lower proofs mixing with gasoline? Any home tests on this forum? What is the lowest proof you can mix at normal temps?

And what about the vehicles? I need a truck, 1/2 ton will do, 90's model better for me (cheaper). I can't go full-blown E100 yet, mainly because I do longer trips, so any mods need to be easily changed to do gasoline. (if I can run E70 without mods, even better!)

Obormot · Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Posts: 44 Location: Ukraine

Hi!

if you wan to make your own ethanol, maybe it will be better to do not mix it with gasoline at all?

for cold starting you can install small startup gasoline tank systme, it can be self-made, and it is very cheap and simple.

hot engine can be started on ethanol as good as on gasoline even in winter.

at summer, if temperature do not lower than +13C, this system not needed at all - you can start cold engine on ethanol.

converting car to ethanol isn't so pricey, i think you will loose more money buying gasoline for mixing for non-converted car.

EFI cars can "self-adjust" for up to 50/50 ethanol/gasoline mixture, sometimes even bigger, but carburetor must be readjusted if concentration of ethanol in gasoline will be more than 10%. Converted EFI cars usually still can use E85 or gasoline (in long trips), carburator must be readjusted for every type of fuel.
_________________
European E85 conversion kit
http://bioadapter.com

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

Well, I've looked into converting my EFI, and it will run at least $400 USD. I use about 400 gallons of fuel a year, so I am looking at a cost of about $400-500 for the gasoline for a 50% blend.

Also, in terms of work and infrastructure needed, 200 gallons is a lot easier to produce than 400 gallons.

I am not worried about cold starting as much as to test to see if it is viable for me to produce my own fuel. If I can mix hydrous ethanol at a lower proof (160), I can distill that in a very simple (cheap) still, like a solar still.

So, you see, mixing is a way for me to get started on less money. If things work ok, then I can invest more to eventually go 100%.

Has anyone here done tests with lower proofs to see if they stay mixed?

Obormot · Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Posts: 44 Location: Ukraine

converting of 4-cyl. engine with EFI cost $124 with shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250631172744&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_1500wt_1165

conversion of carburetor is much cheaper - you need 3-4 oversized jets, i think it will cos about $10-20. or you can "drill" your old jets for bigger diameter.
_________________
European E85 conversion kit
http://bioadapter.com

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

Yeah, I have at least a 6 cylinder EFI, but as far as the carb is concerned, I need something I can go back to gasoline, if needed. So, that would be a double carb, if I change the jets, right?

Also, doesn't timing have to change as well on the carb vehicle?

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

The other issue, of course, is that getting to 190+ proof, rather than 160-170 proof will take a lot more energy.

Have you ever heard or seen a solar still that can get up to 160+ proof? I think maybe with a couple of passes, but up to 190, you would need a real still, which will be more $$$$.

Any cheap still designs that can do 190 proof at 2-3 gallons/hr?

Obormot · Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Posts: 44 Location: Ukraine

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

What is the easy way to switch back and forth with a carb system?

Switching jets is a pain to do on the side of the road or on a long trip.

The EFI systems sound like they are definitely the most flexible.

Obormot · Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Posts: 44 Location: Ukraine

yes, EFI systems are really flexible - becouse of their self-adjusting properties Smile

as i know, carburetors can't be quick switched from one fuel type to another - and this is nog good. but on some carburetors changing of jets procedure is pretty quick and easy, not so easy like pressing button, but...
_________________
European E85 conversion kit
http://bioadapter.com

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

What is the lowest proof you are able to mix with gasoline (based on experience)?

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

I have seen some carb systems where they put on a dual-carb, one can is set for the ethanol, the other for gasoline. Then, with some electronic valves and such, you can change back and forth with a switch of a button.

Obormot · Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Posts: 44 Location: Ukraine

180 mixing at high temperatures, but it will separate in winter.

carburetor will cost pretty much, and price for making special intake collector will be much bigger.
_________________
European E85 conversion kit
http://bioadapter.com

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

Do you have any information about stills? I have several different plans, like the FSS and Charles 803.

I think I will focus on the EFI system, get a decent vehicle for that, and worry about the carb once I am producing enough volume to handle it alone.

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

There are two grades of "Everclear" in liquor stores- 190 proof (95% pure) and I think a 120 proof (60% pure). While it might seem a waste, you could buy the lower proof in a small bottle (or the 190 proof and cut it with water), measure out a given amount into a tall glass jar or graduated cylinder and then add various %'s of gas, try cooling it by packing in ice with the thermometer and see for yourself.

I keep meaning to test various hydrous 190 proof / gas blends but never seem to get around to it.

velacreations · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 9

yeah, that is a good idea.