E85Forum.com

Johnston Motorsports · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 9 Location: St. Clair, MI

Here are the first few steps that I have accomplished to date:

1.) Tested the e85 with the QuickFuel test......and it was a true 85% content. Step 1 was a success
2.) Drained out 110 and filled up with e85.
3.) Loaded revised program using .75 as the fuel constant vs. convential gas at 1.0. Using an already existing program on the FAST XFI, I turned the car over and surprisingly it started right up. It surged a bit, but after a minute of minor tweaking it settled down.

That is as far as I got last night due to it being late and the kids were sleeping.

I plan to go out and fine tune part throttle/WOT tonight.

So far I'm impressed and excited.

The setup is as follows:
1991 Mustang GT
418ci
88mm S400 Borg Warner Turbo
AOD transmission
3.27 gear
83lb Injectors
2015 Weldon Fuel Pump

The car with the 75mm turbo went 10.38 @ 138 on the 17" tire last year.

My goal has always been 9.50 @ 145mph on the 17" tire.

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Keep us posted on this !

Johnston Motorsports · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 9 Location: St. Clair, MI

UPDATE:

I took it out for a cruise and here is what I found:

1.) Engine Temp - It certainly ran cooler. I would say that the 20 degree information that I read about was fairly accurate.

2.) Idle/Draivability - the fuel seemed easy to get right, it was very close just using my gasoline tune and adding the appropriate increase to the VE table

3.) WOT - damn, this stuff requires a lot more than I expected. On 110 octane @ 20PSI it was 60-65% injector duty cycle. On e85 @ 10 psi it was 100% IDC. This was at 42-44PSI base FP.

So, now I am at a loss. I don't know which direction to go. I can either up my injectors to 120lbs or 160lbs, but the issues are as follows:

1.) New Injectors = money
2.) It seems it would be a good idea to convert from BANK to BANK to Sequential, which the XFI can do, but I would need to change the distributor and add a crank trigger......more money

Also, will my Weldon 2015 keep up?

I'm just not sure what to do. The 110 is available at multiple pumps within 20-30 mile radius of my house at an average cost of $6.50/gallon. The e85 is cool, since its corn, and cheap at $2.29 a gallon. But the additional expense required to increase the fuel system, is it worth it?

I will continue to research and keep everyone posted.

Please provide any insight/opinion as its all welcomed.

Thanks!

hotrod · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 872 Location: Colorado

There is a partial solution you can use to give you just a bit of head room on the injectors. You could raise your base fuel pressure slightly, that will give you a bit more fuel flow at very low cost.

At 10 psi boost you have some head room on allowable fuel pressures. Buy a good adjustable fuel pressure regulator will likely be cheaper than new injectors.

The fuel system conversion costs are mostly one time costs, fuel cost is a continuing cost that will never end. The lower fuel cost of E85 will gradually pay you back for the conversion plus give you better performance and more smiles per mile.

You can increase your fuel flow in those injectors by 14% by going from 42 psi to 55 psi base fuel pressure. The Weldon is supposed to be good for over 110 gallons per hour at 50 psi.

Larry

Johnston Motorsports · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 9 Location: St. Clair, MI

TimZ · Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Dearborn, Michigan

novi200 · Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 22

I also run E85 using the Fast XFI. The FE constant that I have set is .680, as far as the 160s I use them as well and they idle and run as good as the stock 03 cobra computer with 75lb injectors.

Johnston Motorsports · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 9 Location: St. Clair, MI

Thanks guys for the tips.

To answer TimZ, the system is a FAST XFI.

Based on what I found out, the 160's on a B2B shouldn't be an issue since e85 require so much more fuel even at idle.

I'm gonna borrow a set of 160's and swap my brother for his Weldon 2025 and give it a try.

I changed the fuel constant to .68 as Novi200 suggested. I also added Lambda to the datalog parameter and will focus more on targeting .7143-.7500 instead of specific A/F. I also will reference plugs and make sure they look OK.

Thanks again for all the help. I am excited about getting this to work, it will make the car so much more enjoyable and sitting in traffic or going for long drives will be welcomed now that it only costs $2.30.gallon..!

Alcohol · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Central Wisconsin

Tim- now that you are all happy about $2.30 E85 -I'll tell you I only pay $1.99 over here in WI Razz

Someday maybe with a little competition you'll see that too over in MI.

I do not know the system you are tuning with but hopefully you can trim back from 30-42% more fuel at WOT to maybe 15% at idle/light load or she will be a heavy drinker for you.

It appears you can adjust pretty easily- that will be a feature you will likely want if you drive this into fall/winter/spring as the % ethanol blends change.

Johnston Motorsports · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 9 Location: St. Clair, MI

I plan to only use true e85 since I need atleast 105octane. When it gets close to be switched to winter blend, I will buy a 1/2 barrel and store.

I will say the cool thing about e85 idle/part throttle is that I can run it very lean vs. convential gas. Gas usually wanted 13.0-13.8:1 A/F on a gas scale, the e85 likes 9.50-10.0 which is more like 14.3-15.2:1 in a gas scale.

I will be happy to see how it runs with 160lb injectors.

keith2500hd · Joined: 20 Jun 2010 Posts: 4

bank to bank will fire injectors twice instead of only once, which is what sequential will just fire during intake cycle. if you go from bank to bank to sequential you will lean out. if you have option for batch it will double fuel delivery of bank to bank, your injectors may be able to handle the added pulse width, some don't. raise your rail pressure, it helps improve atomization of the fuel and improve intake air temp(lower). larger fuel rails and or a fuel cooler may help deliver more fuel. north dakota has a version of E85 they mixed 1% biodiesel, UNI(university of northern iowa) tested several years ago in flex and nonflex(corvette,viper were done) along with SAAB/VOLVO E85 cars, the added btu and lubrication made an impression on drivers over regular driving, not closed course as is normal testing.

440Jim · Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 188

TimZ · Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Dearborn, Michigan

Johnston Motorsports · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 9 Location: St. Clair, MI

UPDATE:

I swapped in some 160lb injectors over the weekend. Idle and part throttle cruise is still in need of some fine tune, but the car did start and idle......but surged

I ended up verifing that the weldon 2015 pump is maxed out after 10psi. I will upgrade to the 2025 and it should fix the issue.

I also spoke with Mark (Mark55) who has a drag boat with a 540 and twin S475 turbos who uses XFI.

The reason I called him was to discuss Lambda and what I was seeing. The lambda at 7.00:1 A/F was .50 which is way off from what I was under the impression I would see. I was told to ignore A/F and target .70 lambda. Mark explained that Fast doesn't work well with lambda and e85, but did tell me to just target 7.1:1 A/F and go from there.

I must say the car never gets hot, which it used to before. The air inlet temps are also cooler on the IAT sensor, which was a suprise to me.

I will continue to get the car sorted out with e85.....Mark has given me new found hope as he said he has ran his bought now for 3 years on e85 and has made a max hp of 1800hp.......so he has had great results.

Johnston Motorsports · Joined: 28 May 2010 Posts: 9 Location: St. Clair, MI

Update: It seems that the 160lb/hr Injectors will not work with the FAST XFI in Bank to Bank trim. I can't get it to idle and part throttle drive...the A/F is all over the place. I plan to switch back to the 83lb injectors and see how far I go. I also plan to upgrade to sequential and either 120's or 160's in the winter.

Anyone ever try 120lb/hr injectors on a B2B using e85?

Thanks!