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Drag Chevette
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
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 Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: |
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tho squirter nozzle should be around 40-45, if not it could cause that tip in stumble...
as for the secondary issue, remember when i told you the 3/16 mainwell might be too big?.....
your getting a delay in the pick up.....try raising your float level in the rear about 1/4 turn (counter clockwise) this could help the boosters pick the fuel up quicker.
mark. |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Speedy says,
"It that the water that the E85 soaks up?"
Look every where else for causes first my friend- this issue is way overstated unless maybe if you leave the fuel exposed to air for long periods or over winter when you are not racing. Pure E100 anhydrous ethanol is very hydroscopic but once even the 2 % denaturant is put in at the ethanol plant this rate drops sharply- it drops even more when the 15% hydrocarbon (gas) is added. We have stored E98 in three 2 million gallon tanks for months with no moisture gain (test prior to rail ship). Granted these are large tanks and better sealed than your fuel cell and carb. Part of this myth comes from the GM style test kit which requires a tiny amount of E85 to be exposed to air for the test on % alcohol- in this situation the sample results are thrown off by this exposure.
This should not be your issue unless you bought "wet" fuel to begin with- this could be from a station who put in E85 for the first time w/o cleaning the tank. |
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Thumpin455
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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I build transmissions but I am not a "tranny man" that sounds more like I enjoy show tunes and eye shadow while wearing pumps and a dress. Big difference... 
I broke the trans in my GTO with ethanol, it wasnt the healthiest to begin with and the ol 455 put a hurtin on it.
_________________
1970 Pontiac GeTOh 455 with a Qjet.
1998 Pontiac Formula LS1 on yeast pee. |
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Speedy8311
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Long Island,NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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LOL I hadn't realized how it was worded!...LOL........as for the squirters....its not a stumble....the squirters are 42's...nozzle type.ok....i'm gonna try to explain this as best as I can....If I was to hold the throttle open so the car revved no higher that 1800 the motor would miss fire and stuff kinda like it had WAAAYYYYY TOO BIG A CAM.....until I stepped on the throttle and gave it more gas then it would smooth out,Kinda like a really fouled out set of plugs.It's not,I just put a new set in and it did it right away.Could it be from Drilling the main wells too big?  |
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Drag Chevette
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Speedy8311 wrote: | | Could it be from Drilling the main wells too big? |
could be main wel related....
try moving the jetting around 1-2 numbers and see if it gets better or worse.....
better yet, make sure your fuel is 85% ethanol. |
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Speedy8311
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Long Island,NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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ok......I went and put $15 bucks E85 in and about a block later the problem got MUCH better,still there a little though.....I guess there was still a bit of gasoline in the tank.I'm gonna run the tank down and put another $15 in to be sure that it 100% pure E85.I'll update tomorrow or the next the progress  |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Allow the fuel level to get fairly low and fill 3 diffferent times (each time getting it down low before). You might be suprised how even after the second fill you can still not be within 2-4% of full strength unless your tank is virtually dry before filling. |
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Speedy8311
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Long Island,NY
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I've been doin alot of drivin to make sure the Tank is Pure E85. I figured out that the station that I have been getting E85 at must have water in the tank.I tried another station and the "sputtering went completly away.Later that day I had to go back to the orignal station and the sputtering returned.I do know that I'm definaly pure E85 now though. I still have the Lean problem with the secondary's until there full open,I was wondering if I got another secondary block and did not drill out the main wells just the main pass to discharge nozzle would the stock main wells be enough for E85? |
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Alcohol
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Unlikely (but not impossible) that the one station has a water problem-- most likely by far is that one station has summer blend and one still has spring blend or something in between-- your engine will tell you this pretty quickly when you are running a carb- especially if it is not dialed in one rpm band or already tipped to the lean or rich overall. The change in % alcohol is playing with your air / fuel ratios.
I suggest you test the fuel's % ethanol with a cafefully executed h20 phase separation test-- like 440jim posted. Find the station that has about 82%-85% ethanol and tune for this rather than jump around. Also recognize that in Sept/Oct this % will start to drop to 76-78% as the weather cools. |
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Drag Chevette
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Speedy8311 wrote: | | I was wondering if I got another secondary block and did not drill out the main wells just the main pass to discharge nozzle would the stock main wells be enough for E85? |
No....
the sputtering or blubbering most likely is a difference in fuel %....
there might be enough difference between the fuels to make a difference. |
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newalky
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Speedy8311 wrote: | | Yo.....no ofennse but dude! I did try your advice I actually upjetted the front to 83 becouse it was at 81 and even leaner.I don't have a 9 sec car its an 11 sec street car.The whole fact that with the 83's in the primary's and a 6.5 power valve with upping the pcvr's to .075( I don't have a .080 I have 1/8") I can run the bowl dry just goosing the car twice!!!!! So yes I listen very well,so dude take it easy I appreciate every bit of advice!!! I have to keep trying to learn how to do these things myself,I am extremly mechanically inclined,If you feel that your wasting your time thats fine,I'm still going to try and tune it in until its right.But again......I appreciate all of your advice and yes I do listen,and again I thank you very much for the advice that you have given me. |
Listen to what Mark says, he knows what he is talking about!! He converted my carb and it works great! In fact I just had a new best 60' time and ET yesterday.
Mark is very charitable with his help. A lot of carb builders will tell you to send it to them and they will correct it.
Mark can fix your carb for you and his prices are VERY reasonable!
You need the right jetting = mixture for your engine. Once the jetting is correct the carb will flow what the engine requires. Within reason of course (you don't need a 1050 Dominator) newalky |
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Speedy8311
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Long Island,NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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 I'm just givin an update......the 750 that I converted to E85 works great.(with the help of DC,of course).A few weeks ago I actually pulled the wheels in my car on the street.only about 4" but I still did it.Also the last I left I was still tuning,so let me say where I've gone with this.....I removed the carb for a few days becouse of.....an excessivly rich idle mix and the same dead spot in the secondary's.I took the carb apart and changed out both the metering blocks with undrilled blocks. The onlly part i drilled was the PV channels.I wanted to see if the wells were too big.Well actually no there not.also it seems that the stock wells seem to be doing ok for now.It does run a bit more lean at idle and I can adjust the idle circuit a bit more,without any drivablity problems or lean problems.Ok..as for the sec's or what seems t be the secondary's.it only happens when I push into it slowly,as i start to open the sec I can see(o2gauge)the motor go lean,so lean it misfires.It still does that,even with the other block.What I found to make it a little bit better was to up the powervalve from 4.5 to 7.5 giving it more fuel when the secs start to open. It seems to have gotten better but I'm still in the test mode.I'll probly put the drilled block back on in the next few days to return the carb to the proper specs.I'll post more after I do more tuning. |
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89shortbox
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 153
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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My experience has been with street strip cars and I can tell you that on the street e85 seems to need a much earlier opening power valve to cover light load enrichment.
_________________
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89 S10
406 SBC Twin Turbo BT
Going E85 this coming season
HAHA, the season is alreay gone to another season. |
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Speedy8311
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Long Island,NY
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok......the drilled metereing blocks are back on.I do have a question for everyone,does anyone else have an excessivly rich idle mix?.....I can't seem to make it go away.Could this be an airbleed problem?How do I tell? and second just a FYI being that I have excessivle rich mix upon removing the carb to place the gas carb on for a few days I realized that underneath the throttle plates I found a black sticky goo.alot of it.the same goo when you let gasoline sit in the tank for years.My theory is that with such a rich mix the alcohol was evaporating so fast that it left the basics ofgasoline behind.Has anyone else noticed this also.If I can't get the engine to run clean at idle I'm gonna have to periodicly run it on gasoline to clean out the intake becouse its there also. |
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Drag Chevette
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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ethanol cleans better than gasoline....
I suggest you have someone build your carb that has done a few of them and forget about your headaches. |
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